I’m thrilled to continue our series of Sunday interviews with creative/handmade entrepreneurs. This week was monumental for a few reasons: I conducted my first ever Skype interview (glitches and all!) and was SO excited to get to meet and interview one my most admired shop owners: Tania Vargas, co-owner of Goat-Milk NYC. Man – I was so nervous. But, as they say, life begins outside of your comfort zone.
Note: If you want to WATCH this interview instead of READING it, you can check it out on YOUTUBE – click here! Grab a cup of coffee, and ignore the sound quality on my end and a very abrupt and awkward sign off. Then you’ll get to hear Tania’s story firsthand. 🙂
A little about Tania:
Tania Vargas lives in New York with her family. She has a background in advertising and media in the corporate realm, and co-started Goat-Milk with her friend Roland.
Hillary: What did you do before Goat-Milk? And how did you start your business?
Tania: I started in advertising: in media and account services. My partner, Roland, was in advertising as well. I would liaison between creative and client. I did that for 25 years. It’s a long story how we got to this, but I think the best businesses are the ones that happen organically, and sometimes accidentally. That’s what happened with Roland and me. We were on the branding side of things and the advertising world and we came upon an opportunity to create something that was our own. That really excited us. Because we had so much experience working with other brands and being able to see the mistakes they made, we got really excited of doing something from scratch and making everything we did thoughtful. And so that’s how we came into it. It’s accidental, but it really spoke to our skills as well. I think it’s interesting that you said you think we are branding experts, because that’s where I think we do a really good job.
Speaking of that, when you started to grow, how did you learn to operate the other parts of business?
We worked for big companies, and about 10 years prior Roland and I had started a small boutique agency. So we had been dealing with things on our own. I mean it was a little different – a service business rather than providing a product – but all the tenants and ideas and philosophies were in place. Honestly, you can kinda figure out everything else. There is a youtube video about anything. Whether it’s accounting or other little things, you learn as you go along.
No that’s totally true! I learned half of my business knowledge for Jake’s Carpet Cleaning and Free Babes taking bubble baths and reading Barnes and Noble books. It happens organically.
Yeah, those Dummies books are great!
My favorite podcast, Entrepreneur on Fire, always starts with a failure story. I love this, because it helps listeners and readers identify with you on a down to earth level. What was your biggest failure with Goat-Milk and what did you learn?
There were a lot of them! I guess anyone who has been in business knows – you learn that to keep going, you really have to have a stomach for it. You can’t let a set-back set you back. We had a really really hard time our first production phase. We had a lot of bad merchandise that we had to sit and pick through for days and days to find the right pieces for out customers, and the rest of it was basically not useful. That was a huge setback from a monetary and morale point of view, and in retrospect, I’m surprised we didn’t stop there. But we are very tenacious and we just keep on going. You figure it out. Even though it didn’t work out, there are 100s and 1000s of people who produce things, and we can as well, so you just got to keep moving.
Totally. That reminds me of one of the most reassuring quotes I’ve ever heard. “Perseverance overshadows even talent when determining the quality of your life.” (Tony Robbins)
So what is a motto you live by? A quote or school of thought?
I would say “Do you homework.” Understand your numbers. I think it’s really important to know a lot about what you are doing. Everyone is in awe of those people are at the top of their game or newly discovered, but the reality is, they’ve probably been doing it for a very long time and worked very hard and know it inside out. You just happen to see the payoff – not the sweat, blood and tears behind the scenes. So nobody gets to where they are without doing the hard work, and I think that’s a very important motto to live by. There’s just no way around it.
That’s great advice. Totally true. Where do you specifically find support as a business owner?
Well, we are in children’s wear, which is a different type of community than ready to wear. I think people are much more willing to share and be helpful in children’s wear – not so much ready to wear. We tend to build our own community: whether it’s at the trade shows… or a Facebook association where we all share information and stories and recommendations. I do a lot of outreach. You connect now through instagram with a lot of people and you find out they are in town or live in the same neighborhood. So a lot of thing like happen organically – you are chatting with someone, and they are doing [something you find interesting], and you’re like, “Oh let’s meet and talk!”
How did you find the Facebook group?
I started it myself. You know when you have a brand, it’s just you. You don’t have a lot of opportunities to mix with other people who are doing what you’re doing because you don’t live in the same town, state or country. So I created an online version of a community. Once a year we’ll have meet ups in New York for the New York based ones. And people will ask things like: “I need to make business cards. Who do you like?” Or everything from manufacturing to “where do you get somebody who knows how to cut felt” or simple little things like “what kind of dyes do you use in your screen printing?” It’s great because you can ask the question, and people can offer to answer it. So it’s less intrusive that walking up to someone and saying “OK, where do you produce your stuff. Where do you get your textiles?” There’s not a lot of pressure.
I totally think there is so much value in helping each other out and not being scared of competition.
So what is your ultimate business WHY? Why are you in business for yourself?
(Laughs) Because I don’t want anybody telling me what to do. No I think it’s a progression of life and career too. I couldn’t have done this 20 or 10 years ago. I’ve always been very autonomous and a self-starter and I feel those are a lot of personality traits you need to do business on your own. After 25 years in advertising, it was hard to work for anybody else because at some point, it’s just layers and corporate and political stuff and you really don’t get that much stuff done and everything is done by committee. So I think given the personality traits and terms of personal satisfaction, entrepreneurship was a much better path for me.
In corporate America, if you don’t use your sick days, you lose them, so in December, everyone uses all of them. Since I’ve been doing this, I work when I’m sick and I don’t regret it. I’ve had no sick days because I enjoy it. I look forward to getting up every morning. And that’s the tell-tale sign of whether you’re enjoying what you’re doing or not.
When the lines are blurred between work and play, that’s the best place to be!
What would you consider are your biggest strengths as a business owner?
I’m really good at multi-tasking and I’m very good with people. I’m actually genuinely interested in people and their stories, so I make a good listener and I tend to get along with people very well. That allows me to make a lot of contacts, then have opportunities that may never have arisen unless I had made those connections.
My partner and I also think out of the box and try to go where no one else is going. It’s certainly scary and not safe, but I think that’s also a trait that has well served us.
What’s been your biggest challenge as you’ve tried to grow?
Anyone who has a business will tell you money is the most important thing. And growth is very difficult to do without an influx of a lot of cash. And certainly you can grow slowly, but I think there are a lot of cash flow issues.
That reminds me. How did you go about that very first time finding your manufacturer? A lot of our readers are still actively creating everything they sell, and would love to know more about manufacturing. I’ve always been curious about making the jump.
Well a lot of it is through word of mouth. The best way to do it is through recommendation. But even then, it depends on what you’re producing. You know, you can go one place, but they won’t do denim. Or you can go somewhere else and they won’t do swimsuit. Or organic. Or they won’t source the the textiles. There are so many variables – that’s why I think it’s so hard. And there are a lot of associations like “Maker’s Row” where you can go online and find one suited for you, but I just think there is no magic bullet. A lot of it is just networking with people who are producing.
There are also a lot of trade shows. South America has one because a lot of fashion is produced there. You could go jet-set there, but a lot of that is just not feasible when you are starting up. Our very first line in factory was gotten by a Broker – we hired someone in New York to facilitate for us. And obviously that person has a lot of contacts and they know who does what where, but it flopped anyways. (laughs). So it’s a crap shoot.
So would you use a broker again?
No. we do everything personally ourselves. We don’t have sales reps. We don’t have intermediaries. That’s the best way to do it.
So, how many employees do you have?
It’s my partner and I, and then we have a group of freelancers we call upon when we have specific “highs.” We just opened up a retail shop about a year ago, so we have part time help at the store as well. Other than that, it’s pretty lean and mean!
Goat Milk storefront.
Inside the store.
Point of sale.
racks of soft organic goodness.
How many hours a week do you work?
At least 50 hours minimum. I’m working every minute of the day almost. It’s so funny, because a lot of people think it’s designing and creating, but that’s only about 5%. There is accounting, marketing, customer relations… cleaning the toilet at the store. There is a lot to do, but I would say my time is spend managing the day to day: accounting, customer service, site maintenance, inventory, designing, doing fit specs. It’s just a host of random amounts of things you do.
You always hear that entrepreneurs work 80 hours a week in hopes that one day they will work 4.
Yep. It’s an investment for something that may or may not happen.
So what do you do to stay motivated? Where do you draw your inspiration?
I’ve always been a very positive person – the glass is half full. Things don’t really get me down for too long. So I think I’m just a natural motivator myself. We live in New York City, so just being here and taking a walk everyday and seeing the structures and people and what they’re doing [is inspiring]. Whether they’re writers or artists, or business people or lawyers, everybody has a passion for what they’re doing and it becomes a little addictive and give you a lot of energy.
I’ve never been! It’s my dream to see the New York City Ballet.
So what type of lifestyle does your business afford you? What do you love most?
The hours! Even though you are working a lot of hours, they are your own. If I want to pick up my youngest son and spend the afternoon at the park, I can do that. Then I can make dinner, hang out, then go back to work from 9 till midnight. It’s really the luxury of the time. Or if we decide we are going to go away for 2-3 weeks, we can do it. And I would say that is the biggest benefit and luxury that we have.
Have you figured out ways to work remotely? And to have someone hold down the fort while you are gone?
Yeah, between my partner and I, we share those responsibilities to make it possible.
What are the main ways you market yourself? What has been the most rewarding for the least effort?
Well it’s never the least effort. I would recommend trying a lot of things, and then figuring it out. You know every business is different. What works for some brand may not work for out brand and vice versa. People can tell you “Oh, this is great. Or that’s so great,” but until you try it and test it for yourself you don’t know. It’s a lot of hit or misses.
Very early on, we were conscious of the fact that brands speak for themselves. You said it: we have very beautiful imagery and look and feel. But unless we’re backed up with the product, [it doesn’t mean anything]. The comment I constantly get is “it’s so soft.” Which is true. It’s so so soft – it’s delicious. And so you have to start with the actual product and make it the best you can. And then, if you have everything else that goes with it, that’s great.
I can talk about my product till I’m blue in the face, but that doesn’t mean anything. What really matters is when other people talk about it – the end user. Would I love for my product to be on a Kardashian one day, and see her tweet about it? Of course! But that’s a temporary high. Oprah can talk about it, other [celebrities] can, but where you invest the time and money is the end user and everyday person. They talk about it, they tell their friends and it becomes a ripple effect.
It’s just like how we work a lot with bloggers. If they ask us for samples, I send them things because it’s low cost. And I don’t care if they have 100,000 followers or 5000 followers.. You never know where you’re going to get that customer from, so to dismiss someone because they have low viewers is not something we care to do. We spend a lot of time making sure our product gets into the hands of people.
That’s great advice. That’s something I heard about Susan from Freshly Picked. They never turn down anyone who wanted to try out a product. I love that mentality of not being greedy or exclusive but really believing in your product and giving it to everyone so you can create fans who love your brand.
What’s your fave social media platform – although I think I know. 🙂
Instagram. (I was right)
How have you built your following? What is your secret there?
Again, there is no secret. You pay $25 bucks for this book, and everything you need is on 2 pages. I once took a page from #GIRLBOSS … I heard about the book and immediately bought it. I read it in one day, and then sold it on ebay the next day. (Laughs). I mean there are so many books out there, but honestly they are worth about 3 pages and you have the read the whole thing.
So really, there is no secret. You have to be active and find the group of people in the type of business you are in. Comment on their posts. Be part of the community, be genuine. I think it needs to be highly curated as well. I think we gravitate towards instagram because we are a very visual brand. We have Twitter and Facebook because we have to, but instagram is about the image and that speaks well for us. And you only have a second to look at somebody’s feed and you decide then and there if you are interested, so we are conscious about the way it sits together.
You are really good at that. I’m really bad at that. I take photos at night with bad lighting and am too impatient to wait to post highly curated images.
But you have to kind of do it to get your vibe and feel, and then you find your way. It’s a learning curve and you figure your voice out. I struggled with, “what’s my voice?” What do we sound like? What do we look like? You just have to test it. When I repost images of our customers wearing our clothing, I get a lot more likes than when I post pictures of my kid doing something. So I mean, if people don’t like my kid, I’m not sure why! (laughs)
The time of day also determines post [interaction]. Firday nights are dead. Never post on a Friday.
Totally. I’m learning slowly. So going back to that book, what is your all time favorite business book?
I’ve read a lot, but I really like the Seth Rogan series. Malcom Gladwell, the freakonomics guys are great. I listen to their podcast, the NPR show and have read all their books.
What would you say has been you biggest business WIN so far?
That’s a hard one. When people order things it’s always exciting. We’ve definitely noticed that each collection gets a lot more excitement generated, so we see the demand. And that’s not necessarily one big win, but kind of a progression of a win. But honestly, if you were to ask me what the win is, I would say whenever we get feedback from our customers. Having the store is great because now we can actually talk to the customers and get their feedback and compliments. It really means a lot.
What is you ultimate vision for your business in the coming year?
I would like to see us grow more from a product standpoint, which I think we are doing with the collections that are coming up. We have two more coming up for the rest of the year. I would just like to see more growth from a direct to consumer point of view. Obviously there are higher margins. Part of the reason of having the store was because when we sell to other stores, our product sits next to everything else. The great thing about the store is the chance to show the personality and speak to who were are. I’d like to see more direct to consumer than wholesale.
What is standing in you way between now and end of year goals?
It’s a lot of hard work having people know who you are. A lot of it is marketing, PR, social media, SEO and boring google stuff.
So if you could get free advice or help from a magic elf employee, what would they be doing for you?
I honestly think it would be cracking the whole SEO thing. I think there is a lot of stuff going on online and so many people vying for that one person’s attention. How you stand out? Even though I’ve read the adwords and SEO for dummies books, I just think it’s such a massive undertaking. I would love to have somebody do that.
So what advice would you give yourself if you could go back in time?
I would say that it’s ok to start small, and specifically for Goat-Milk to not be so obsessed with having a range of SKUs in terms of sizes and colors. It’s ok to start small and simple. Just keep learning from what you are doing. Don’t feel bad about it and feel like you aren’t a full professional company because you only have a few pieces. I think things have changed so much since we started and that instagram has a lot to do with it. There are so many small boutiques and shops that it’s so much easier to create something and put it out there.
That’s really good advice. Because of instagram as well, it’s so hard to not compare. You see all these shops that literally just started 6 months ago and they are exploding! And you wonder why you aren’t selling out if a new collection in an hour.
I mean I see these things on instagram and how people are going to crazy and their numbers are going up. But you never know going on inside a company. Just like you don’t know what’s going on in a marriage. That’s why feeling jealous and like you aren’t doing as well as the other guy is pointless. You don’t know if there is a huge loan that has to be paid or other things behind the scenes. It’s a waste of energy to be jealous. You just have to focus on doing what’s best for yourself.
Competition is good because it makes you be better at what you are doing. But don’t feel jealous. And I’m always skeptical about those who rise quickly. I feel like the faster you rise, the faster you fall.
And I also totally think that for me, success is great. Numbers are great. Selling out fast is great. But ultimately, I want to own a business so I can live the lifestyle I want. If I’m a slave to my business because it’s sky-rocketing, that’s not success for me.
So tell me about your morning ritual?
I’m up a 6am to go to the gym to do my power workout. It takes about an hour. I come home, shower, and take kids to school. Then I indulge by sitting in the same cafe everyday and having my coffee.
But even then as soon as I get up I’m checking my emails… etc. But I use the gym to get my energy up, because you need that energy.
If you could do anything or be anything in the world without the possibility of failure, what would you be doing?
I’d be a surgeon! Yeah, why not. I’d be an ER surgeon saving peoples lives every minute of the day. How rewarding is that?
Do you have a favorite success quote?
The whole part about doing your homework. The blood, sweat and tears. Many people overlook that.
What do you do for fun?
Last night I did karaoke for the first time ever. It was the best time ever. I’m kind of addicted to Netflix and BBC and Masterpiece Theatre and browsing book stores. My time, because I have two children and work, is very limiting, so sometimes just doing nothing is the huge luxury.
What is your process for goal setting?
We try to set certain goals for ourselves each year just because you kind of have to have some milestones and be thinking about what you’re doing and how you are growing. A few times a year we do an offsite retreat, where we go somewhere with no interruptions and talk about our experience. What are we liking? What are we not liking? What could we do that’s a little bit different? We look at numbers and see what worked and didn’t work. It’s almost like a post-mortem we do a few times a year. Those have been really inspirational. It’s a time where we talk about our biggest idea no matter how crazy it is and things morph from there and you get to a place where you never would have gotten before.
The best products we’ve ever developed have come from those meetings.
What is the funniest thing your kid has ever said?
My son asked me: “Mommy, do I have to pay somebody to work?”
Well he can come work for me. (laughs)
Do you have anything else to say or add to benefit all of the entrepreneurs that are watching and listening to this?
Life is short. You regret the things you didn’t do. You don’t usually regret the things you do. So take that opportunity you think you should. It’s scary to go out on your own. It’s a monetary thing. It takes time and energy. But sometimes you have to go for it. I believe in our gut instinct and listening to your voice. Go for it. But be smart about it. There are a lot of ideas that you shouldn’t do. If you can test something, that would be great. Do something that might scare you a little bit. Be open, thoughtful and learn something as much as you can and as fast as you can.
Surround yourself with honest, smart people. You are the sum of the 5 people you surround yourself with. The people around you either build you up or bring you down.
Get yourself out there. In Tina Fay’s book, Bossy Pants, she had to learn to say “yes.” It’s an interesting concept. It might be late at night and you are supposed to go somewhere, and even though you are cozy, you force yourself to go out and you meet someone who inspires an idea or created a connection or gave you some inspiration. That never would have happened if you didn’t say yes and put yourself out there.
You guys… I hope you learned as much as I did from Tania’s story. If you haven’t checked her out on instagram, you can find her AMAZING feed at @goatmilknyc. You can also visit her website at www.goatmilknyc.com. I’ve been dying to get some of her black and white striped organic basics for like 12 months.
If you have any questions for Tania, leave ’em below in the comments and she will happily answer them.
Thanks for following along our series. I’m so excited for next week, where we have a SKYPE video interview with the beautiful Sheree Laney of Sherbert Lane.
And as always, make sure to subscribe via Bloglovin’ (Button on side feed on computer) or subscribe at the bottom of this page to email updates to never miss an entrepreneur interview post!
Be Brave, Hillary
